What are key considerations for valuing and integrating diversity and inclusion in Christian worship? Pastor Pete Armstrong shares stories and insights to help church leaders create diversity-valuing and inclusive worship.
Episode 36: Diversity in Worship: Representation, Music, Fairness, and Grace
While most of the Diversity and Inclusion for All episodes are intended for a general audience, this episode on Diversity and Worship is intended for Christians and Christian worshiping communities who are interested in exploring what it means to honor or value diversity in our worship. In this conversation with Pastor Pete Armstrong, we get to hear how he and his congregations have worked on embracing diversity and their leadership, music, and engagement with one another.
Pete: If the book of Revelation is painting a picture of every tongue and tribe and nation worshiping Jesus together, let's do what we can with the days God gives us to to model that out and live that out.
Penny: We need to redefine fairness from a Christian perspective as sort of doing what we can so that each person can realize their God given talent and become and grow into the person that God wants them to be.
Pete: It can be so challenging. And yet, if you are a follower of Jesus, your identity is as a person of grace and mercy, and I'm concerned because I don't see a lot of that.
Penny: Welcome to the diversity and inclusion for all project supported by Calvin University and the Calvin Institute for Christian Worship. Together, we'll listen to key perspectives, build our knowledge, inform our thinking and get a little better equipped to engage our world.
Penny: I think one of the things that does characterize kind of American culture is this belief in rugged individualism. You know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and meritocracy. Kind of… If you try hard enough, then you'll get what you deserve. And that's good stuff. Those two kind of myths, if you will, are …have shaped kind of the American dream, right? Anyone can come here and, you know, make a name for him or her are their selves and be a success story, right? But I actually think that if we look at those two things, it is a little bit like a religion, right? If I think that rugged individualism and meritocracy are good and right and the way, the way it should be, that might disable me from actually thinking about loving my neighbor, caring for the widow, and, you know, doing justice and walking humbly with my neighbor and my God. And so I think I… not that we don't want to try hard or that we don't want to encourage people to kind of be agents in their own life and story… Those are good things, too. But we have to balance that with those other things-- for caring deeply for those who are in need, for loving our neighbor, even when they're not the neighbor that is already in our circle of people we like or know best. Right? And walking humbly with both neighbor and God, I think we need to really balance those things out.
Pete: You know, in the in the communities right around where I sit now around my church, there is the systemic poverty, there's generational poverty, there's these little villages of apartments, you know, where people are trying to trying to better themselves, but they have so much stacked against them. And the normal way of life is to drop out of high school. The normal way of life is to do drugs, the normal way of life coming into those communities with with an asset-based mentality. There's some great local organizations that are doing that and the church, I think the Church of Jesus can partner, you know, not even putting our names on there, but just followers of Jesus come alongside and join in what you know, the Rosewood initiative is locally here the Rockwood Community Development Corporation, the Boys and Girls Club. We're doing a new thing called We Belong PDX. That's an after-school program. And. It's a it's an incredible way to to to walk alongside people and to to see, to build relationships and to see, you know, to see what happens when the church really shows up.
Penny: That sounds like a great way to just reach out and build relationship …right across those lines of difference.
Pete: Yeah, yeah. To kind of bring you back to the diversity and inclusion conversation. I mean, that's the school next door to my church. You know, this is Portland's …this is Oregon's most diverse zip code. I mean, the the school next door is 70…80% nonwhite. And you can't you can't help but, you know, it just it comes naturally and it's a it's a beautiful thing. Again, Christians have to and we're people of the book right or people of the scriptures. And my my youth, my youth pastor…He's he's learning in seminary. You know, one of his professors says Christians have to start smoking what they're selling, which I think is a good, you know, good, good thing to say in Portland. But we got to put our money where our mouth is. And if we …if the book of Revelation
is painting a picture of every tongue and tribe and nation worshiping Jesus together, let's do what we can with the days God gives us to to model that out and live that out. That should be our identity, right? Not so caught up in pull yourself up by your bootstraps, American religion. But being people of the scriptures.
Penny: The idea of pull yourself up by your bootstraps can also kind of be a tool or a kind of a judgment on others, right? If someone appears according to a standard definition to not be successful, just a certain definition, then we tend to want to… We tend to lean to judge them like, Well, you're not trying hard enough or you've made bad decisions. So it's all your fault that you are not quote unquote successful. And I think more than that, we're called to walk alongside and help a person live into their calling and what they can be and what they can do for good in the world, how they can love and serve and grow right as a as a human being. That might mean putting away those ideas of rugged individualism and meritocracy and and figuring out how can we how can we be in community and relationship and help each other? And it's not…You shouldn't be just a one-way street. I think we have so much to learn from people who are different. I have so much to learn from people who grew up in a different socioeconomic, educational, even religious background from me, I have stuff I need to learn from my cultural and and societal others that can just help me understand the world better.
Pete: Some of the ways that we've held down groups of people in our country, you know, I think of redlining. I think of this practice of saying, you know, which extended much, much later than what many of us think, of we will not give a mortgage. We will not give a loan to African-Americans in this in these parts of our cities, and that has huge ramifications. Generational ramifications. My … it's it's at the top of my mind because my parents just sold the house that they've lived in in 23 years. And the reason that they were able to do that and purchase a home was because, you know, in effect, because their parents were homeowners. And they and I'm thinking in particular my grandmother who lived in the Bay Area, that was a great place to buy a house in the seventies or eighties and hang on to it for a couple of decades. And Portland, Oregon, also a great place to buy a house in 1998 and sell a house in 2021.I think about, you know, they they were given that opportunity because of the color of their skin. They weren't, you know, they weren't red-lined. They weren't and they were able to create generational wealth. I mean, my dad's a pastor. You know, I'm not talking about, you know, real wealth, but I'm talking about homeownership. And that's that's a big issue in my neighborhood. Every event I go to that's put on by the Rockwood CDC or the Rosewood initiative. It is trying to establish equity and justice for our largely Hispanic and African-American neighborhoods in the area of housing.
So that, you know, I think about my supervisor, so I work one day a week for Resonate Global Mission, which is a ministry of the Christian Reformed Church, and my boss is a guy Clarence Presley. He's in charge of the western region for Resonate, who's African-American. I don't, you know, we've been good friends for 15 years. I don't know all the contours of his story, but he, you know, he was not able to go to college right out of high school. He wasn't able to go to seminary right out of high school. And yet we were I think the Christian Reformed Church did an incredible job in recognizing the gifts. There's a thing within the Christian Reformed Church where if a minister is extraordinarily gifted, they do not have to, you know, essentially have an M.Div. They don't have to go to seven or eight years of of college and seminary, because sometimes that's just not possible. And in Clarence's situation, he was ordained in the Christian Reformed Church. God gave him incredible talent for reading and interpreting God's word, for ministry, for leadership, for pastoral care, for apostleship. And now we're seeing the fruits of that because he's leading a movement of of renewal in the western region among the churches, church plants, college ministries. And it's out of this… out of this experience. And I don't, you know, perhaps people say, Well, that's not fair, and I had to jump through these hoops and all that sort of thing. And I think that's more about the thing you were talking about. That's more about that “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” than it is about the way that God's people should be living and the way that God's spirit sometimes leads us in extraordinary ways and to extraordinary people.
Penny: I think sometimes, too, we have this idea about fairness rhat is a little more like equality. So if I have three kids, right, and in one definition of fairness, it would have been that every single one of them gets violin lessons for five years. Like that would be fair. Yeah, yeah. But in reality, one like violin and the other two didn't right. And one liked running cross-country and one liked playing in ..Playing the viola, not the violin. So that fairness isn't that they all get exactly the same thing. But that that each gets what they are called to, what they feel they need to grow and be themselves right and to serve God and love our neighbor. And so fairness, I think too, when we think about diversity and inclusion, it gets into that discussion about equity and equality, right. That fairness isn't that everyone gets exactly the same thing because and we don't even have that in our society. As you said, some people have generational wealth and some people don't. That's not fair. You're just born, you know, into into a situation. I think we need to redefine fairness from a Christian perspective as sort of doing what we canso that each person can realize their God given talents and become and grow into the person that God wants them to be. \
Pete: Yeah.
Penny: How do you hope that learning more about diversity and inclusion can help you and your worship community or other worshiping communities and ministry leaders?
Pete: Yeah. So let's let's think about it through the question of music. You know, music and worship, we …we’re living in extraordinary times because at our fingertips is the, you know, the largest collection of music for the church that has ever existed in, you know, in 2000 years of Christian history. We have access to music from all around the world and through every generation. So every time some, you know, whoever the the worship planner or the worship committee, the the pastor or whoever is selecting songs for worship. They have it there at their disposal the music that's going to shape their congregation and I don't …we can't underestimate that. I mean, how many lines from a sermon in the last few decades do we remember? And yet, how many how many songs have you committed to heart.
Penny: Music is so powerful that way. Yeah.
Pete: Yeah, It's just incredible. You know, last night we had our Christmas program and it's it's in the, you know, one of the most important words in the Bible is “remember.” You know, seeing those seeing the kids singing those hymns and joining in those the songs of romance and crying out and oh, come, oh, come Emmanuel, and all these these hymns that teach us about the incarnation and God God taking on flesh and blood.They are so powerful and they speak so much to us. They shape the way that we think about our world. And so giving people a view of the worldwide church, I think is so powerful. There are people that are in the church for, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, and so their experience of Christianity is this church. You know, they're they're rooted here. This is where they are raising their kids. This is where their grandkids live. This or this is…I'm 25 and I've only gone to this church my whole life. And so what…what an opportunity for…the worship musicians for the planning teams to give people a breadth to…To travel to other places through the music that we that we learn and even through the. Even through the awkwardness of yeah, maybe you maybe you can't sing in Spanish. Maybe you can't, you know, maybe you can't sing in these other languages. But we listen, we participate as we can. We learn.
Penny: So the idea that music as a metaphor for why diversity and inclusion can be so valuable is, is your strategy actually of exposing …of creating the worship space where people in your congregation are exposed to a variety to a diversity, in this case of music, but also of people as just a way to glimpse that sort of revelation image of the the world and at the end of all time, right, coming together in its diversity to worship God.
So I'm wondering, how have insights about diversity and inclusion shaped how you read and plan or think about worship? What else is important for us to think about if we're thinking about strategies or why diversity inclusion would be important for me in my church, in my worshiping community? And what tips would you have for us?
Pete: Yeah. So I would say having a theological foundation, you know, going to the scriptures because literally from Genesis to Revelation, there's a thread about, you know, first, the people of Israel being a blessing to all nations and then seeing the fulfillment of that in Christ and in the church and then seeing the future of that in the Book of Revelation. So, having having a strong biblical foundation for that and thinking theologically, knowing what you believe about that, knowing how to have a conversation about that, so that when people say to you, “This is a political agenda. This is us drifting into liberalism,” You are able to say, no, this is us standing on the scriptures. This is us looking to live as God's people. I think that is really crucial in the times that we're that we're living in.
Shortly after the events in Charlottesville in the summer of 2017, the Christian Reformed Church released a letter condemning the violence, reminding people of some very biblical, very practical, very well known. Statements. You know, love your neighbor as yourself. You know, Micah 6:8 again. And a wonderful letter penned by Colin Watson, who is, you know, he's black, he's actually from the Caribbean, which, you know, serving, you know, when you when you're in a place like New York, you learn to see the difference in the nuance between between people. You know, I think a lot of a lot of white people, sometimes just group people into categories, say, Oh, they're Asian. Ignoring that huge difference between a Malaysia and someone from Vietnam and all that sort of thing. But Colin, yeah, he he penned a wonderful letter. And I read that letter to my congregation.And there was strong, strong pushback about you're bringing politics into the pulpit. You're you're doing this, you're doing that.
So that's why we need the foundation of the scriptures. We need to preach on it. We need to explain it. We need to show how the what the gospel has to do with racism. It's just everywhere. And we ignore it to our own peril. If you would like to see your church grow in the area of. Diversity and reflecting more of your neighborhood, which I would like to see that. Representation is important. And having people participate in in leadership: the leadership of the council, the leadership of committees, the leadership of worship. Reflecting, you know, where you where you want to go. I think that's really important, and then I think that singing the music of of the worldwide church and every generation. Is is really important, and the …I think the Christian Reform Church and the RCA have been ahead of the curve on this in the hymnals that they that they produce. I think there's a lot of great resources and you don't have to look far. To to find it.
Penny: So if I had to summarize what you've just shared with us through your great stories and experiences, it feels like there's at least these three things: that that we need to get our theology right. We need to understand what the Bible does say about the diversity in our world and the valuing and the loving of our neighbors, even the ones who aren't like us. And then the second thing is that it's really important as one of the strategies you mentioned to bring in and tap the skills and assets and insights and perspectives that our diverse people bring in, putting them in positions where they can lead worship and be seen right and contribute to our community. And then the third thing you talked about was you talked about the music, having a diversity of music, but really that sort of thing. We as worship leaders might want to seriously think about. Very consciously integrate and diversity and different things to expose and give our congregation those experiences that they might not otherwise have to give them a vision and a glimpse of the amazing and wonderful diversity that is in our world and that all can be kind of shaped to worship, to praise and glorify God.
Pete: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And to show that we, you know, every little church on, you know, on every corner is just this tiny, tiny slice of God's of the church and of God's coming kingdom. And when we, you know, when we sing songs from around the world, we get more of a taste of that.
Penny: So, what if there is a worship leader or a worship team that would be interested in maybe including more diverse music or other worship elements that aren't the standard in that particular church? Or perhaps there's a pastor or a preacher who is interested, maybe in talking a little bit in those sermons about diversity. But but they're afraid, right? Because, like you said, there's a lot of fear and that can bring out the worst in us rather than the best in us. And there are some pastors that are maybe not in the best position to deal with a lot of pushback from some strongly minded people in the congregation. What encouragement or inspiration or insights would you have for those. If I'm afraid maybe a little bit to do some of that, how can I start that journey with myself and my congregation?
Pete: The first thing that comes to mind is just knowing that, you know, if you are in North America, this is the future that's coming. I mean, we're growing more and more diverse as a society. And if our churches and networks and denominations are going to exist, you know, in in 40, 50, 60, 70 years, they will be places of diversity and inclusion. And so I say that to say maybe, maybe God will give you some holy patience knowing that the time is coming. But also to say this is this is where we're heading. It can be such a challenge for people that are used to the status quo and used of things being a certain way and used to, oh , we're not going to rock the boat, but it can also be…it can be an encouragement to say this isn't the work of the enemy. This might be the work of the Holy Spirit, like stirring the church and getting us ready for for what's to come and to be, you know, to be the people that he's calling us to be and to prepare ourselves for, you know, for the new heaven and the new earth, which we know this is what God wants it to look like.
Penny: I feel like if we want to be salt and the light in the world, we need to understand the world a little better.
Pete: And I've seen this in New York and Portland. There's still sort of a fortress mentality among the Church of, you know, get so get so involved. And you don't you don't even have to. I mean, it's crazy when you when you look at a place like New York or Portland, it's crazy to think that that the ten or 20% of people who would identify as like Bible believing Christians that they wouldn't have one significant friendship with the other 90%. I mean, it would be like it would be hard to do that. I mean, you would have to ignore your neighbors. You have to like, you'd have to be so, you know, closed off and so busy with church stuff or whatever it is. And yet I think that is the reality for for a lot of a lot of folks and it's it's certainly damaging to our witness. It's certainly massively lost opportunities to to learn and to connect the gospel to people's real life struggles.
Penny: So at this point, I'd just like to give you a chance to mention anything or, you know, go back to your bullet point list. And if there is something that you a story you wanted to tell or something that a point you wanted to make. I wanted to give you a chance to do that. What? What would you like to leave with our listeners as we conclude our podcasts today?
Pete: Our identity… so in entering into this …the conversation about diversity and inclusion, i can be so challenging. And yet if you are a follower of Jesus, your identity is as a person of grace and mercy, and I'm concerned because I don't see a lot of that in our in our conversations. Yeah, I just long for that. I long for some of the the guilt and shame and hurt that so many people of all kinds of backgrounds feel, yeah, I just long for that to be cast out and for for God's grace to to fill our lives and for God's grace to empower us to to seek justice.
Penny: I love ending podcasts like this with a note of grace. I think in God's economy, it's actually not about fairness. It is all about grace. And that works out to our advantage.
Pete: Yes. Oh my. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Penny: So I want to thank you so much for joining me today and helping us unpack a little bit Diversity and inclusion and what that can mean for worship planning and worship leaders and the Christian Walk. Thank you so much for sharing some of your stories with us and for helping helping me understand a little bit better kind of some of the challenges that we face in trying to integrate diversity and inclusion learning into our church community practices.
If you are interested in hearing more about diversity in Christian ministry, you might be interested in the episode “Diversity and Congregations,” where Pastor Pete and I discussed some basic challenges and insights of understanding and valuing diversity in our worshiping congregations.
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