Disabled scholar Amy Kenny discusses several ways disabled persons are unnecessarily discriminated against, maligned, and excluded in our societies. She offers important perspectives for discussions of disability rights and concrete steps for each of us to take in seeking to include and learn from disabled persons in our organizations and communities.
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Amy Kenny [00:00:06] Disability is a culture and an embodied experience that contributes to society and that non-disabled people get to learn from. And I think that's a relatively new concept for many non-disabled people. So doing an accessibility inventory is about the built environment. It's about the liturgy and practices. And I think it's also about the attitudes. Churches are not required to follow the Americans with Disabilities Act when it was signed into law in 1990. Some churches fought against it, and so it is still legal to discriminate against disabled folks in church spaces and schools.
Penny [00:01:00] Welcome to the Diversity & Inclusion for All podcast supported by Calvin University and the Calvin Institute for Christian Worship. Together, we'll listen to key perspectives, build our knowledge, inform our thinking, and get a little better equipped to engage our world. Today our special guest is Amy Kenny, who is a disabled scholar and a Shakespearean lecturer. And I've read her recent book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the Church. And I love her perspectives and experiences that she shares in this book. We get to talk to Amy Kenny today about her perspectives and her insights and her great wisdom that she has to share with us about disability rights, disability justice and ableism. So welcome to the show, Amy.
Amy Kenny [00:01:57] Thank you so much for having me.
Penny [00:01:59] I'm wondering if we could just start out by having you introduce yourself a little bit for our audience, in order to understand a little bit better where you come from and where your perspectives originate.
Amy Kenny [00:02:10] I'm a disabled woman. I'm unapologetically unashamed of my disabled body. I'm an ambulatory wheelchair user and cane user, and I am originally from Australia. I am also US American now and a third culture by lived experience that's both of those and neither of those. I'm the descendant of convicts. I'm a scholar, an educator, a learner, a listener, and I feel more at home in water than I do on land.
Penny [00:02:49] I feel like I learned so much reading your book and listening to some of your talks and podcasts that you've been on, online. I'm wondering for our listeners, for some of them at least, disability as being a really important part of diversity, inclusion discussions might be kind of a new idea. So, I'm wondering if you could introduce us to what you feel are some of the most important things to be aware of when it comes to disability, disability justice, and disability as a really important part of diversity and inclusion?
Amy Kenny [00:03:19] Yeah, I think a lot of times people think that disability is a medical idea. This comes from the medical definition of disability, which is a person with a physical or mental impairment. And for many people, that's their only familiarity with disability. A disability is much more than that. Many people refer to disability as a social construct. It's the environment that disables people rather than people's body-minds. So, in my case, it's the fact that we've chosen to put stairs everywhere instead of ramps, making it difficult to navigate the world on wheels. And, of course, the social model of disability doesn't account for the diversity of the disability community. It doesn't account for chronic pain. I myself have chronic pain. But I think something that's very helpful about thinking about that social model is thinking about how disability isn't just located in people's body-minds, and it expands our notions of what it means to be disabled. Disability is a culture and an embodied experience that contributes to society and that non-disabled people get to learn from. And I think that's a relatively new concept for many non-disabled people.
Penny [00:04:45] The concept that we have so much to learn from disabled fellow human beings.
Amy Kenny [00:04:53] Yeah, I think a lot of times people understand my body-mind as a burden, a tragedy, a defect, that the default is considered non-disabled, and that anything outside of that norm is somehow tragic. And so, therefore, they project onto me these notions of sin, of pity. They can become very condescending in the way they interact with me. They'll often pat me on the head like I'm a good dog. Or they'll say very condescending remarks about just doing basic things in life, like going to the library or get told, “Look good for you for making it out today,” from folks who don't even know me. Strangers will approach my mobility scooter or wheelchair and offer me potions or prayers to try to change my body-mind without knowing anything else about me. And that really only comes from this idea that disability is inherently bad and tragic.
Penny [00:06:01] It also seems like people or society when they do those kinds of things, are really assuming that disability is not part of the diversity that exists in the human race. And that so that's one of the things that I've been sort of learning in my journey is that disability can be seen as just part of diversity. Is that appropriate, in your opinion? Is that okay to think that way or am I missing something if I simplify it too much?
Amy Kenny [00:06:33] Absolutely. Accepting and honoring disability as part of the beautiful diversity of humanity is really integral to us understanding that disabled folks and disability communities have wisdom to offer us about the human experience.
Penny [00:06:56] I really appreciated in your book, My Body is Not a Prayer Request, you shared so much wisdom, I think. I'm still really processing and thinking about that. And actually, some of the insights I got from your book make me notice things. And I think that was one of the things you wanted, right? You just want people to notice when there are barriers to everyone being included, especially disabled persons and just ways of talking: metaphors that maybe we need to rethink because it implies really negative things about disabilities. So, I'm kind of wondering if you can help us a little bit, and there's a couple different things I'd love to discuss and have our listeners be able to benefit from. So, tell us a little bit more about disability justice: what's involved in that, what are the key things to know about that and what can we do to be part of making this a world we live in a little more just for persons with disabilities or disabled persons?
Amy Kenny [00:08:01] Disability justice is a movement pioneered and led by people of color, queer folks, disabled folks: people who are multiple marginalized, who have been left out of many of the disability rights conversations. And disability justice affirms the unique qualities and knowledge of each body-mind and stresses that no body, disabled or non-disabled, is inherently worth more than another. Every body-mind has needs that fluctuate over time, and there isn't a hierarchy of those needs. If we think about the idea of getting to work or going to the library or church or your neighborhood store: if I get there using wheels, it's thought of as pitiable and tragic because it's a wheelchair. But if someone else gets there using wheels on a bike or a bus or a car, all similar situations where you are sitting down and you're propelled quicker by wheels, that's somehow efficient. And so, something that's really important to have a meeting with ourselves about is to ask ourselves, “why is it that all of those experiences include a very similar mode of transportation, but one is considered tragic and the rest are not?” And part of what the disability justice movement is asking for us to do is to recognize that all bodies must move together in order to thrive. No person is left behind. We move at the pace of the most vulnerable, the most marginalized, so that everyone can thrive and that no body-mind's needs are better or worse than anyone else's.
Penny [00:10:08] The term ableism is also part of this picture, and I kind of read up that ableism as a term really emerged in our consciousness, in our society, in the sixties and seventies. But recently I've heard that term more. And I know that you've also talked about that in your different public forums. I'm wondering if you could outline a little bit what's important for us to know about ableism, maybe how it is or isn't thought to be structural, and then how we can deconstruct it and its power in our lives, in society. ety.
Amy Kenny [00:10:45] Many folks think ableism is discrimination against disabled people, and it is. But it is a system and an ethos that is much broader than that. I really like T.L. Lewis's definition of ableism that talks about how ableism is a system that places value on people's body-minds based on these societally constructed ideas of what's normal, of who’s intelligent, of excellence and productivity. And we can very easily witness, I think, the way that these ideas are deeply rooted in anti-blackness, eugenics, colonialism, capitalism, queer phobia: this idea that some body-minds are better than others, that there is a hierarchy of body-minds. All of that is ableism. Ableism comes out in words. So, people often use lame as a word to describe something that they don't like. I am lame physically. That word means that you can't walk, and it's not a great time being everyone's go to word for something cheesy or something undesirable. Zero out of five would not recommend. But it also shows up beyond just the individual words, in the idea behind that word. That word is representing that. To not be able to walk or to glide using wheels is somehow considered less than. There's a hierarchy there, and then it's in systems and structures. So, teachers denying my accommodations, saying that it wasn't fair to the other students, that I had an accessible desk, or that I needed more time to get from class to class using my manual wheelchair at the time. It shows up in the systems of the way that we structure our society with the built environment and with attitudes.
Penny [00:12:54] I know in your book you had this great way of phrasing it. You said, “the way that ableism works so brilliantly is to make itself invisible. It is the air we breathe, the water we swim in.” And as I was reading your book and you had some other examples of ableism, and one of them was the words we use, like using lame or even crazy or using metaphors, like “being blind to something.” It really made me think, “Oh my goodness, I think I do this all the time. And I've never thought about how hurtful and demeaning that can be for other people.” Is there a like a good way for us to start tuning in to that, tuning our hearts into just being a little more aware and sensitive of the pervasiveness of ableism and how to work against it.
Amy Kenny [00:13:49] I usually just run people right over with my wheelchair and just move on. [laughter] Yeah. Thank you for that reflection. I appreciate that. And I really enjoy hearing how folks are processing the book and then how it's lingering with them afterwards. Because that’s I think the real work: it's not only the reading of the book, it's how people are adopting the practices with the ideas and putting them into practice for a more inclusive way in our lives, which is great. One thing I like to recommend to folks is that when they first start considering ableist words and the pervasiveness, because they are indeed everywhere, is to choose one or two per week that you're going to be conscious of and attempt to not use in conversation and try to find a word to swap out instead of that word. And then at the end of the week to choose another one or two. And over time that builds up, the cumulative effects of the amount of words that you are changing. But it also is a very gentle and gracious practice because it's not saying, “here's a list of 500 words that you can never say again. Stop it now.” And shaming people, because that can feel really overwhelming.
Penny [00:15:14] I have another quote from you that I really liked and it just stuck with me too. This idea that “niceness doesn't cure ableism.” So, it's not just good-hearted people trying to be nice, right? I mean, we really need to think about what we as individuals do and that communities, organizations, society that can change how we engage with others in our societies. I also really like in your book how you talk about the well-meaning folks, right, that are trying to do the right things. There are going to be some folks who say, “oh, you're being too sensitive” or “that's just the way the language is.” How can we respectfully counter that when we encounter that with other people?
Amy Kenny [00:16:08] The beautiful thing about language is that it changes over time. We no longer say thou and thee. And we get to alter our language to reflect our current communities and the communities that we want to build. I love language. I love etymology and words. And I, as teaching in an English department, have a great time thinking about the history of words and the way that they're used. And we also know that words wield such power. And it's so interesting to me the pushback that I receive very frequently from folks saying, “don't be sensitive. Lame doesn't mean that anymore,” or “I didn't mean it that way. What's the big deal?” Well, if it's not a big deal, why don't you just use a different word?
Amy Kenny [00:17:08] So I think even the idea that changing words is a hardship or a difficulty is a little bit misguided because really the words are just reflecting some of the deeper work that needs to be done, which is if you're using ableist slurs without even recognizing that they're ableist slurs, and then you learn that they are and you still use them, that seems to suggest to me that maybe you do actually think disabled folks are less than. Maybe you do think we're a different class of humanity. And that is a much, much deeper work that needs to be done to reconsider how every body-mind has value, just inherent to being a bearer of the image of the divine.
Penny [00:18:09] Your book really helped me think about the idea of micro-aggressions, but coming out of your experiences. So microaggressions is something that I talk a lot about in my other diversity and inclusion work. And perhaps a lot of listeners have heard about microaggressions in the context of maybe racial slurs or the experiences of persons of color in organizations, especially predominantly white organizations. But you gave some really great examples and experiences and some metaphors about how to understand microaggressions from your experience as a disabled person. I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about that with our listeners, just so we can understand and be motivated maybe to actually take this seriously.
Amy Kenny [00:18:56] I use the metaphor of mosquito bites in my book to give folks a way of understanding how, to them, what seems like not a big deal is to me something that really adds up, and the cumulative effect adds up over time. Someone says lame, and that's one mosquito bite. Another person doesn't look me in the eye at the restaurant, but immediately turns to my friend and says, “What's the wheelchair want?” As though I am not a human being there present in that moment. That's another mosquito bite. I call ahead to a coffee shop where I'm going to be meeting someone and ask, “is there an accessible entrance for me to use?” And I'm told yes. And then I get there and there's not. That's a mosquito bite. I need to go to the restroom. And there isn't one that's available to me. And then I'm told that's a special need. Bite, bite, bite. The idea that these seemingly small, and sometimes insignificant to others, interactions are just micro-aggressions is really only from the perspective of people who aren't experiencing them dozens of times a day. I regularly get stuck on the bus because the ramp breaks or I have to be carried in and out of places. I have gone to many restaurants and work place where there's nowhere for me to use the restroom. And I think sometimes when people haven't experienced that as part of their everyday life, they don't even notice that that's the reality of many disabled folks.
Penny [00:20:59] I like the metaphor of the mosquito bites. I've also heard other people use the metaphor of paper cuts. Right? That, one you can deal with. It hurts, but it's just one. But if you really had them all over your body. And not just today, but also tomorrow and the next day. And every day. If you live with that, it's a very different experience. And if we can do anything to lessen that that suffering, right? that pain, why wouldn't we do that for people?
Amy Kenny [00:21:36] Exactly. Yeah.
Penny [00:21:38] Amy, you have written this wonderful book that's really, I think, targeted at worshiping communities; the second title of the book is Disability Justice in the Church. And so, you kind of indicate that churches don't always get it right when it comes to including and creating a sense of belonging for disabled persons. I'm wondering if you can help us understand a little bit what churches often get wrong when they're engaging and trying to create spaces that are welcoming and spaces of belonging for disabled persons.
Amy Kenny [00:22:16] I've been approached by strangers in churches dozens and dozens of times trying to pray me away. Approaching me, noticing my wheelchair or mobility scooter or cane and immediately interpreting that as a request for prayer. I have been given potions and oils and homemade remedies from church folks claiming that those are from God or curatives that will alter my disabled body-mind. I've been told explicitly that if I just believed, I would not be disabled or “what sin is preventing you from getting up and walking?” And that's what they do to my face. Imagine what they do behind my back. Churches are not required to follow the Americans with Disabilities Act when it was signed into law in 1990. Some churches fought against it, and so it is still legal to discriminate against disabled folks in church spaces and schools. And many people are unaware of that. And when they learn that, are horrified. But the aftermath of that is that so many people in church spaces haven't really had much interaction with disabled people, and so they don't know how to create an environment and attitudes that cultivate belonging for disabled people and instead treat us with accusations, curatives, and unsolicited prayers.
Penny [00:24:21] So, if a church wants to embrace disability justice, one thing they could do (just want to encourage everyone to go out and buy the book, My Body is not a Prayer Request and maybe do a book study with a group of people just to bring up the topics and really benefit from Amy's amazing insights). But, you know, in addition to reading your book, what are some good steps that congregations could take to start this journey or continue the journey and become spaces and places and communities that are more welcoming and affirming and spaces of belonging for disabled persons.
Amy Kenny [00:25:07] One really important thing that churches can do, regardless of where they are on the journey with disability is to hire disabled folks, listen to disabled folks’ ideas about scripture and gatherings and social events and just the community gatherings and life of the church. Bring in disabled speakers or read disabled authors’ books about church and about God. And this isn't to say that all disabled people should be followed without critique or question at all times, forever and ever, amen. But it is to say that a lot of people in churches have never learned from disabled people. They've never thought about the way that we interact with the world. And yet 25% of the US population and 15% of the global population are disabled. That should be reflected somewhere in the leadership positions of the church and in the decision makers of the church. That should be reflected in the exegesis and the Scripture, understandings and application and theory that the Church is talking about. So, hire disabled people; whether that means buying someone's book or bringing them to your church or listening to them in positions that have some sort of decision-making capacity in your church. Another thing is doing an accessibility inventory. Whatever space you find yourself in, whether you gather in a small space or lodge, you know, is it accessible? Including bathrooms, parking, preaching spaces? So many churches have an accessible restroom, but then the place where someone would teach or preach is not accessible. And that signals to us that disabled folks only receive, that we're not ever teaching or giving and sharing our gifts with the community and serving in that capacity. Does the liturgy of your church allow for different physical and sensory needs, including those who are blind or low vision, deaf or hard of hearing, wheelchair users or autistic? Do you force folks to stand and sit and participate in a particular embodied way? So doing an accessibility inventory is about the built environment. It's about the liturgy and practices. And I think it's also about the attitudes. And then, of course, not just doing that inventory, but committing to change if your inventory reveals a need for growth, committing to change those aspects. And then the final thing I'd recommend is revise the language that you use in your churches. Check out your worship songs, liturgy, everyday life, examples, jokes: who is being mocked in those? What ableist slurs are part of those that maybe you didn't even realize? And this isn't to shame anyone, but just to name that that does not cultivate an inclusive environment where disabled folks can fully flourish and belong. Taking stock of: “we're going to slightly shift this word in this song” or “we're going to make sure that the jokes that we tell or the words that we use are inclusive.” That is a very small way that everyone gets to participate in this work.
Penny [00:28:53] I know that you talk about the Bible passages and about specific biblical characters in your book, and in those paragraphs, in those stories that you kind of retell and interpret, I feel like you really point to a counter-cultural theology of disability, like a different way of thinking about disability in the context of God, creation, faith. What are the important points to kind of keep in mind for our journey in that and in discerning how to think about that in really helpful, faithful, God like ways?
Amy Kenny [00:29:35] So many characters in Scripture are disabled. Everyone from Moses to Elijah to Zacchaeus to Paul to Jacob to Jesus to Mephibosheth are disabled, and yet often we erase those disabilities or we give them other names. We don't call them disabilities. We erased them from the stories because I think a lot of times, they make folks feel uncomfortable, and we don't recognize that in scripture and in our lives now that God is already at work, in and through disability. I think even just holding that is a very low bar, one that most churches I've been a part of do not clear. That disabled folks have gifts to share with the community and that we are made in the image of God. And it's a rather radical idea. Even though we say it all the time. Because, I think what has been revealed to me over my time in churches (and this is different denominations, different sizes of congregations, different countries even) but what has been revealed to me is that most people would not say that out loud that they don't think I'm made in the image of God. But most people in church spaces do not treat us like that. They think that our body-minds are sinful, ugly or dangerous when actually scripture and life with the living God demonstrated to us that my disabled body is divine.
Penny [00:31:35] So, you speak so winsomely about this, about how disabled persons and your disability can be a blessing. And I want to totally affirm that. And also, the idea that we are all made in the image of God. But are there persons who might identify as disabled persons or persons with disabilities who don't feel that same way?
Amy Kenny [00:32:03] Absolutely, yeah. And I think it's so interesting, isn't it, because “blessing” is doing a lot of heavy, heavy lifting. I think so often there is a demand for me to prove it: “prove that you love being disabled every moment of every day!” Who loves their body-mind every moment of every day? I'd love to meet them. No one. For me, it's important to have nuance with that and to not go into a space of toxic positivity where everything about my body-mind and my life is sunshine and rainbows and golden retriever puppies. Of course, I have hard days, as I'm sure you do. Of course, there are elements of my body-mind that frustrate me, just as I am sure there are for you. But having pride in the way that my body reflects the image of the divine means that I'm not ashamed of those things. I'm not trying to erase the parts of my body-mind that are frustrating or complicated or heavy at times. It means that my body is not an embarrassment. It's not the origin story of me becoming a supervillain.
Amy Kenny [00:33:30] Disability is a part of who I am and the way I experience the world. And it's not something that I have to apologize for. And I think when people first come to understand something about disability pride or about this idea of disability being a blessing, sometimes it can go into a realm of happy-clappy and everything is perfect. And that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that my disabled body reflects the image of God. And so, I'm not ashamed of her.
Amy Kenny [00:34:10] I'm also saying that the image of God's throne being a chair with wheels is something that really resonates with me as I cruise through the world in my wheelchair. And when I talk about my disabled body being divine, that's an image that I am imagining and that I hold close to my heart.
Penny [00:34:39] And that's an example too where the ways that you might be different from me can actually help me appreciate and see things in the Bible, see God, and the life that we navigate together as well, a little differently and in a way that expands how I think about things in good ways.
Amy Kenny [00:34:58] Yeah. And that's the beauty of reading and interpreting Scripture and God in community, in diverse community, right?
Penny [00:35:08] Amen on that.
Amy Kenny [00:35:11] I also recognize that disabled folks are uniquely creative because we live in a world that isn't built for our body-minds. And there is something about that creativity that demonstrates the creativity of God as well.
Penny [00:35:29] So, I know that you point out that disability is a blessing, which we talked about a little bit, hopefully give a tiny bit a nuance, too. But you also talk about disability as a revelation and a prophetic witness. I wonder if you can unpack each of those just a little bit. How disability is a revelation and a prophetic witness.
Amy Kenny [00:35:58] Disability reveals some of the discrepancies between what we say we value and what we actually value in practice. Most people in churches say everyone's made in the image of God, but very few people actually treat everyone as though they reflect God to them. Most people want their church to be a welcoming place where anyone can come. But it's pretty rare that churches have really done their work on ableism and the way that ableism is absorbed into many of the theologies and practices and community gatherings. And I think disability really makes that plain for churches and for the broader community. It demonstrates the ways that we do actually have hierarchies when it comes to body-minds. And it calls out and calls into question some of what we actually value. Do we value people because they're productive and because they have cool titles and get work done and make contributions? Or, do we value people just because they are worthy of belonging and love and care, because they reflect the divine? And disability, I think, really prompts a lot of those questions for people.
Penny [00:37:30] I think that's so important. I know in my particular subcultures and maybe for me personally, you know, I have to fight this, oh, I'm going to say maybe capitalist economy thinking, where the products, like physical products, that I put out are some sort of measure of my value. And I think that's just something I need—I'm just admitting—I need to fight against that.
Amy Kenny [00:37:58] Yeah. And especially in a lot of the contexts that we're in, we are disabled into that. Because we are asked to prove our worth by measuring exactly what we have produced each day, each week, each year, and disability really asks us to question the practice of that and the way we internalize it, by giving a countercultural value of people.
Penny [00:38:33] Yeah. And counter-cultural ideas about just what is valuable to do in life, right? It's not just the actual physical products that we can put out, but I think it forces me at least a little bit—encourages me, let's say: it encourages me to think a little more about being rather than doing and how important that is, and what that means too for a life of faith. Even ideas about prayer, right? Can be about doing. But prayer can also just be focused on being with God. And I just need to fight all the time with my doing-oriented-ness I think. And I love what you point out about how disability can be revelatory for us, can be a revelation. So, thank you for that.
Amy Kenny [00:39:32] Somedays I need help getting dressed. Some days I teach university students. Some days I can't move myself without assistance. And on all days, I have inherent worth. Because on all days I'm made in the image of the divine.
Penny [00:40:01] So, is there anything about your idea that disability is really a prophetic witness? Is there anything you want to add to what we've already talked about in terms of disability being a blessing in revelation, something that maybe is particularly prophetic?
Amy Kenny [00:40:22] Disability is a prophetic witness because it prompts for communities to turn back to a way that values each of us. And it cultivates mutual flourishing. I think about the way that many of the prophets in Scripture are criticizing the communities that they are witnessing and then also hopefully energizing them, encouraging them to a different way, to a way that encourages all of our flourishing and recognizes the value of each body-mind. And I would hope that that is what this book does, and I think that's what disability does more broadly. It critiques, and it makes plain some of the structures and systems that harm all people but that disabled folks can't keep up with. And it hopefully also renews everyone's commitment to caring for one another and to this idea of interdependence instead of independence. None of us can do it alone. None of us are truly independent. But many of us really buy into that myth as a form of self-respect and as a form of validation. But us disabled folks know that all of us are interdependent. We beautifully rely on one another in order to survive and thrive.
Penny [00:42:12] I like the way you make me think about prophecy, prophets, and the prophetic way that our life with and among disabled persons can do that for us, can call us to awareness, to caring enough to make changes in the way sidewalks are shaped or the way you get upstairs, as it were, in a building. Right? And to the way I talk, in the metaphors I use. And so that calling, right, like the prophets calling us, they're always calling us to justice and righteousness (and I had a friend tell me that those are actually very often the same word. They just get translated sometimes one way and sometimes the other). But the idea that, you know, we're called to justice; we're called to right living, and that includes creating spaces and places, environments, ways of talking that really affirms and allows everyone to thrive. I hope that I can listen to that prophetic witness that I'm becoming more aware of thanks to your work. I'm wondering if there's any last things you'd like to leave with our audience.
Amy Kenny [00:43:34] One of my favorite passages in the book is when I rewrite Matthew 25, and I think it really touches a deep place in me because it asks folks to reconsider what their actions towards disabled folks really mean. So, this is the passage where Jesus is talking about when you visit people in prison or people who are sick, you give people clothes and food and shelter that you're doing it for Jesus and the people with him respond. “Wait, what? We didn't do anything for you. What are you talking about?” And he says, “when you do that, you do it for me.” And so, I rewrite that passage to pop for me, “for I used a wheelchair and you gave me no ramp. I needed an accessible bathroom. And you said it was too expensive. I asked you not to insult me by saying lame, and you laughed at me. I just wanted to be included in you said it made you uncomfortable. Whatever you did for disabled people, you did for me.”
Penny [00:44:51] That is both revelatory and like a prophetic witness to me. So, thank you for just recapping that again for us. I want to thank you for taking the time to share some of your insights with us today: kind of unpack a little bit what it means to embrace disability justice super concretely and a little more the big ideas. And I want to encourage our listeners to take a look. You can Google Amy Kenny. She's done several other podcasts and has some interesting stuff out there. And I really encourage folks to take a look at her book, My Body is not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the Church. Thanks again, Amy, for being with us today.
Amy Kenny [00:45:45] Thanks for having me.
Penny [00:45:52] We are thankful for the partnership of the January series at Calvin University in the production of this episode. The January series offers a 15-day lecture series in which we hear from key voices and perspectives on a wide range of topics important for our world today. Find out more at calvin.edu/january-series. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to our podcast to stay informed about future episodes. Do you have a friend who would be interested in today's topic? We'd love it if you'd share our work with them. Our hope is that this project will spark good conversations and provide learning resources that inspire diversity and inclusion work. All views and opinions expressed in our episodes are those of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and positions of Calvin University or the Calvin Institute for Christian Worship.